Episode 83: Embodiment for Chronic Pain, Mental Health, and Trauma with Nyle MacFarlane, OTR/L
Show Summary:
Today, we are excited to talk with Nyle MacFarlane, an occupational therapist who specializes in holistic manual therapies that consider the mind-body-spirit interplay.
With over 15 years of clinical experience in the field of pain management, in addition to their career as a manual Occupational Therapist, Nyle has created an innovative therapy approach that utilizes The Four Quadrants of Embodiment: A teaching tool that guides clients through a process of learning how to self-treat and maintain the changes that occur from hands-on manual therapy.
In this episode, Nyle share their insights on the ways in which our physical and mental health are interconnected, and how we can work to cultivate a more positive relationship with our bodies.
Whether you are dealing with chronic pain, mental health challenges, or simply seeking to improve your overall well-being, this episode is sure to offer valuable insights and practical advice.
So sit back, relax, and join us for a fascinating conversation with Nyle MacFarlane.
Learn more about Nyle at Blue Nyle Therapy here: www.bluenyletherapy.com/
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Full Transcript:
Nyle Macfarlane:
Starting where you're at, and clearing the blocks from the body first, instead of trying to change your environment or trying to change your patterns of behavior, there's a reason those things exist the way they do. There's a reason people are reacting or responding to the way that they are. People are a mirror for what's going on inside of us. So instead of trying to control or shift or change any of those things, start with the body and work with where you're at, clear those blocks from the body. And then what remains over time is you right? At the end of the day, when we're doing the work, which is connecting back to the body and releasing the fascial restrictions from the body. Doing that over time consistently, all that remains is all that you are. Truly, it doesn't make you a different version of yourself, it makes you the version of yourself that you truly are and then you will do anything you can to ferociously protect that once you have access to that, I mean the the joy and the happiness that's on there, the union the inner union that's found there that's felt there. Once you have that, it's yours.
Silvia Hazel:
Welcome back to the capital Integrative Health podcast. I am Silvia Hazel, a family nurse practitioner at CH and host of the podcast today. Today we are excited to talk with now McFarlane, an occupational therapist who specializes in holistic manual therapies that consider the body mind and spirit interplay with over 15 years of clinical experience in the field of pain management, in addition to their career as a manual occupational therapist now has created an innovative therapy approach that utilizes the four quadrants of embodiment, a teaching tool that guides clients through a process of learning how to self treat and maintain the changes that occur from hands on manual therapy. In this episode, Niall shares their insights on ways in which our physical and mental health are interconnected, and how we can work to cultivate a more positive relationship with our bodies. Whether you are dealing with chronic pain, mental health challenges, or simply seeking to improve your overall well being. This episode is sure to offer valuable insights and practical advice. So sit back, relax and join us for a fascinating conversation with Dale McFarland. Welcome Niall to the capital, integrative health podcast. We are so excited to have you here today. And before we kind of dive into questions, wondering if you can just tell us a little bit about how you got started as an occupational therapist.
Nyle Macfarlane:
Yeah, thanks for asking. It's funny, my 10 year old actually asked me this question the other day. It's ot month, by the way. So have you with Tina? Yeah, I personally think it's one of the best professions there is because it is so holistic, it really allows for so many different approaches to wellness.
So initially, I actually wanted to be a nurse. Yeah, when I graduated high school, I knew either wanted to be a nurse or something in the healing arts for sure. And I, as soon as I graduated, instead of going to, you know, everyone senior year does like the senior beach week and all of that. I ended up taking a certification training to become a CNA. So I had to grow up really fast, which definitely informs my own healing journey.
So I took a two week course to become a certified nursing assistant and I worked in a nursing home for a while on my Alzheimer's unit, and which can be very intense for a 17 year old and yeah, sure. Yeah. In retrospect, I don't think I could have done it as an adult. It's kind of one of those things, you know, you don't know what you don't know when you're a kid. But on the Alzheimer's unit, that's kind of the if you can envision what that must be like, it's kind of the end stage of life.. So I was holding space for a lot of death at 17 years old. Yeah. And the the job of a CNA is really more like, self, you know, making sure self care needs are met feeding dressing. There's nothing rehabilitative about it.
So one day, when I was working with one of my patients, an occupational therapist came into the room. And it just completely shifted the energy of, of what we were doing there. You know, I was there to get it done. Yeah. And she came in and she was like, we're going to slow it down here. And instead of you putting her socks on, we're going to teach her to put her socks on. And in my mind, I was like, Why are we taking this time? You know, she's gonna die soon. But I saw something shift in her eyes, you know, it was like, suddenly we were seeing her and she could see that we were seeing her and she just kind of lit up. And instead of lying back in the chair, and like letting her letting someone do do anything to her, she kind of perked up and engaged in a completely different way. And I think it was at that moment, I knew that I wanted to be an OT.
And, you know, I had to grow up really fast since the becoming a CNA at 17. So I ended up working in the wellness industry and putting myself through college. And while I was in college, I was kind of the oldest person there and kind of paying my own way. I really started to take school seriously, probably for the first time.
Silvia Hazel:
Yeah, when you're putting the money towards a whole lot more
Nyle Macfarlane:
Why. And also, it was more meaningful for me at that point, you know, I knew what I was going to do with my life. So when I was in OT school, I really got a sense of what it meant to be an occupational therapist, and really, at its most basic, an OT is someone who looks at the full picture of what goes into the human experience. We are trained to help people stay functional and engaged. Occupation doesn't actually mean helping a person get back to work, it means what do you occupy your time with?
Well, whatever is meaningful for you, we want to help you reengage with that. So I'm really grateful for my OT background, even though I would say I'm a very non-traditional OT at this point. I'm very grateful for my formal education, because we I think, probably more so than most practitioners and healthcare professionals, we really got that, that sense of what it means to not just be a person, but to be a person in an environment.
We had to learn how to break down the not just the person's needs, but also the needs and demands of the environment and get those two things to fit together again. It's a class actually called task analysis. We analyze the tasks of the person and we had to take two semesters of it. So it must have been important. Yeah, so that really does inform kind of my approach to embodiment. And the four quadrants of embodiment really do have featured throughout throughout it. My formal education, my background as an OT and that holistic approach.
Silvia Hazel:
Yeah, I love that that's like such a powerful story of how you got into it. And then it sounds like a very unique ones that has like, allowed you to delve into the work that you do now, which is very cool.
Nyle Macfarlane:
Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
Silvia Hazel:
So you mentioned embodiment was, which was definitely on my radar as far as something that I wanted to talk about today. But for, you know, listeners, and for myself, how would you define embodiment? And, and I guess, how is that important to the human experience?
Nyle Macfarlane:
Well it is the human experience? Yeah, truly. And I'm glad you're asking this question, because I have a little bit of a pet peeve. And I hope I don't take anyone off by saying that. But one of the things that really bothers me is when a word starts to catch on, and it becomes like a buzzword. And I feel that that's happening a little bit with the term embodiment. So when I see it used, oftentimes now I see it put in front of another word, like, embody love or embody peace. Or sometimes I'll hear people use it in terms of having a person embody a concept, but also being an embodied version of something else other than them. And I think that when we use the word, embody love, where the other day I saw an email came through in my inbox that said, embodied spirituality. Like, no, it's just spirituality. And embodiment really is, to me anyway, is a very, it's a standalone concept. If you pair it with something else, before you really learn to embody yourself, then you're still kind of missing the point, right?
I think you're we're still bypassing, why we're not embodied when we're talking about embodying something other than who we are. So for me, embodiment means having an access to all parts of you at any given moment and knowing where you are in relationship to those parts of you, right? Because we can never really ask to be fully present 100% of the time, we can never really asked to be grounded and awake and aware 100% of the time. But what embodiment is, is it widens your window of tolerance, you know, which I know you did a polyvagal theory thing recently.
So you kind of get what I'm saying, right? Like, it's just having access and awareness to where you are in relationship to your mind, your body and your spirit. And embodiment widens that window of tolerance. So not only can you kind of stay in choice more often, you also are aware of when you're out of choice, when you're maybe too high, or the bottom has dropped out a little bit, you're aware of that. And then you have access to tools that don't necessarily bring you back to your window, but allow you to be where you are, until you're ready to be someone of somewhere other than where you are. So that's what it means to me.
Silvia Hazel:
I love that. That's a beautiful description and very important distinction between using it as like an adjective. Instead of just like a standalone concept, I like that a lot. Yeah. So talk to me, I guess about the four quadrants of embodiment and kind of what that looks like. And for listeners, people who are just interested in exploring that concept of embodiment for themselves, what does that what would that potentially look like for them?
Nyle Macfarlane:
Yeah, it's just creating structure around a concept that, I think is can be so ambiguous and mean so many different things to different people. You know, I think that we have this misconception that embodiment is optional, or it's something that we only have access to, once we've done all these other things first. And that's simply not true embodiment is vital to living. You know, especially in this day and age, where we've all been through this incredibly intense collective trauma. And we're still in it, right?
Like 2020 brought up a lot, and it continues to bring up a lot. And we're all kind of riding these waves together and trying to figure it out. And instead of looking towards our inner world, for answers, we're kind of projecting out our trauma, we're like, trauma, dumping on to others. And it's, we're becoming very polarized as a result, right? Like it's either this way, or this way. And if you don't agree with me, then you're not my friend anymore, you know. And then especially with the the age of technology, and what we're doing with technology now with telehealth and the ability to be at home where we've really become very isolated. And yet, we're more connected than ever, because we're experiencing this together, which is, I think, a once in lifetimes kind of phenomenon, truly. So this is the time to really be getting real with like, who are you?
And what is my truth? What is my truth. And that really starts with starting to analyze your inner world. So that's what, that's what the four quadrants of embodiment allows for. It's a four part model, that gives us tools and structure for coming home coming back to center, and clearing any distortions or blocks that are keeping us from living here. Yeah, you know. So to break it down for you, the four parts are known as assess, connect, explore and embody. The first part of the assess part is the kind of starting to do a body scan and more like learning to read your body like a map. So learning what's here today, because what's here today isn't necessarily what was here yesterday. Nor should it be and I think that's a mistake that we also make is like, I'm gonna get up and do the same workout routine every single day, the same meditation, the same breath work. I'm going to follow this video instead of really following what is my body saying? So the assess quadrant gives people kind of structure it's a there's a four step series for coming into the body, kind of down training, so to speak, like starting with connecting to your center, your divine line, I call it and we do a little bit of a postural hack to come back.
In fact, let's do it now. Really, I feel like I really need Okay, so the first step is you take a slow breath and raise your eyebrows up. I'm gonna slow breath out, relax your eyebrows down, tuck your chin a little as if you're giving yourself a double chin, it opens up the back of your head a little. And then pinch your shoulder blades together as if you're pinching a pencil between your shoulder blades, palms facing up, open through your chest, full receiving mode. And then tuck your pelvis under slightly to bring your bellybutton into your spine. slow breath in. slow breath out and see if you can start to soften everything down and stay back over your pelvic floor feeling where your feet are.
So this opens up a channel from the base of your pelvis all the way up through the top of your cranium. And you can start to visualize the top of your head opening like a flower blooming. And taking some slow breaths, and you open your eyes and starts to scan around the room a little. So this gives kind of a positions mean everything positions in space really matter to the body. So when you just like feel into this position, that's a very much like, I am here, right? Yeah. And there's a subtleness to it. And a lot of times what it does for people is accused them into how this feels hard. And it brings that up. Yeah, right. And the assess piece really is just about bringing up what is already here. So if you do this assess piece first. And that's just the first step, there's four, there's a total of four steps in the assess quadrant. The second step R is a slow breath and technique. The third piece R is a spinal flow. So it's kind of waking up the central nervous system. And the fourth piece is unraveling. And that's kind of a body scan pant paired with movement, where you can almost like catch the user path patterns that are alive in my body and without pausing. And this only takes 20 minutes. By the way, this first quadrant only takes 20 minutes. And without doing that you're going about your day, without a true read of what you're working with today. And then you're piling more on top of that.
So this first piece not only brings awareness to what is here now, it also can slough off some surface level, adhesions, some tension, some anxiety, you know, whatever you're feeling, it kind of can slough off those surface layers, so that you're going into your day, embodied truly, without even knowing the other three quadrants without really doing the work. Which brings me to the second quadrant, I would say, the second quadrant probably is the work that it's known as the Kinect quadrant. And in the Kinect quadrant, we are connecting to the body, which says a lot because the first quadrant, you're only assessing what's here, you're not even changing anything. In the second piece, you are starting to create change. And truly, I think that all four of these pieces are very needed.
The second part, nobody has time for. Nobody's got time for really listening, getting quiet and listening. And if they do, they're not connecting to the body. They're kind of using more existential skills like meditation breath work. The second quadrant uses fascial release techniques. Yeah. Love that. Yeah. Thank you. It gets into the fascia. Yeah, yeah, it gets into the physical. And truly, that's where our trauma lives. And again, nobody's got time for that they've got a million reasons why they can't do that one. But, you know, people who do sign up to work with me and, and other teachers, because there are teachers teaching these modalities now. You know, they are saying yes to this piece, they're saying yes to going deeper, they're still scared, they're still anxious. They know there's something in there, but they're here for it. They're showing up for it now.
So in the Connect quadrant, I teach clients and I teach teachers to teach their clients, how to use how to scan for a place in the body that feels important. And we try to stay very kind of objective and our language so important could mean a million different things. It could mean tight, it could mean it's calling your attention it can mean There's pain there. So we scan for what's important. And we usually find that out in the assess quadrant. And then we connect to it using slow sustained pressure. With a tool, actually, I brought you a tool today, can you I can show is a really, really simple one. So these are four to five inch in diameter, air filled squishy balls. So you can get these from like Sports Authority or something. But I have these when these ones made and I give them to my clients. So when you find a place in the body that feels important, you connect with that place using slow sustained pressure, the psoas muscles, for example, that's a big one, because the psoas muscle runs through the abdomen, it actually originates in the back, runs through the abdomen and inserts on the inner thigh. So it's a really powerful hip flexor muscle. But because it's running through the abdomen, it stores a lot of stress and emotion because that tends to be where we store a lot. So there's a really great technique with these airfields squishy balls where you can lie face down with the ball in the psoas muscle. And through sustained pressure over time, it starts to melt the top layers of fascia known as the elastin fibers. And then it starts to get into the deeper layers, the collagen fibers. And those collagen fibers are fibrotic. In nature, they're meant to be that way because they provide stability to the body. Whereas elastin gives flexibility.
It usually takes anywhere from three to five minutes to get past the elastin into the collagen fibers. And that's the part that nobody's got time for. So I use a model called the let go breathe model, that kind of almost like tricks people into going deeper. In the first phase, the last phase, that's the first one to three minutes. And that's kind of where that again, those superficial layers are starting to melt. And that's oftentimes where you'll get the mind wandering or thinking about your to do list or self doubt, am I doing this right, all the surface level stop thoughts start to bubble up in those first one to three minutes.
And that's as the tool is starting to sink into the tissue. In those moments, I do ask clients to document what is coming up because it's often informative of these are the survival patterns that you're living in, right? If you're noticing the same thought patterns over and over, write those down, become your own observer, thank them, let them pass through, they've served you well. But we're going deeper. And then in the following three to five minutes, that's why the collagen fibers starts to shift and an alchemize. It goes from a more solid state to a more liquid viscous like state. And then it can even kind of shift into a more crystalline state. And that's pressure, slow sustained pressure, it's called a piezo electric phenomenon. It's, it's science, it's not all new.
So when that piece of electric phenomenon starts to happen in the three to five minute mark, you get this phase transition where the tissue just starts to open. And in the tissue is stored information. And that's where toxins are stored. That's where enzymes are stored. And that's where our emotions are stored. And it's kind of at that point that oftentimes the person will feel a release, the release could feel physical, it could feel emotional, it could feel like a combination of both. Oftentimes the somatic intelligence starts to wake up there, you get pictures, images, symbols, thoughts. That's where the experiences and again, we stay the observer, we stay the neutral observer, we allow those things to pass through. But truly, we're creating this safer container.
You know, the body is the inner child. Yeah, yeah. And in fact, in psycho dynamics, the soma known as which is the body is the inner child. So we work with the body as the inner child. And what I find is, children need to feel safe and secure. And when they feel safe and secure, they'll word vomit all over everything you could possibly want to know right? And more. So once the body feels that then the same thing happens and it's truly a detachment from the outcome and space holding at its finest, which I learned at 17 years old when I was working with the elderly and, you know, cleaning them and getting them ready to transition and right, it's space holding. And as a nurse, it's the same thing, like, the therapeutic container you create when you hold space is more valuable than any agenda we could possibly come in with. Right? So that's where that's kind of where the magic happens where the alchemy happens. It's where the most trim transformation happens is kind of in that second quadrant. And this, this really is something that body workers need to learn. Because I feel we're past the point of doing it for our clients. Yeah, yeah, we need to learn these tools in these models, and and give them to our clients in our session so that they can continue the work that started together and do it on their own. Which kind of brings me to my the third quadrant, which is it's the quadrant of integration. And it really is kind of the missing piece, I think, in healing arts. Yeah, yeah. We, we love to fix people. But we're often not great at giving them the tools that they need to, to integrate. Yeah, right.
We love to run away to the mountains to go to a retreat and have this transformational experience, or this breathwork conference, and then we come back totally changed. But then we don't really use the tools for integration. So we seek those peak experiences. But then we don't really think of how do we anchor this in? How do we bring everything back together with the body that we already have with the environment that we already have? That's not going to drastically change that's there waiting for you. Right? So bringing the tools from the Kinect quadrant, where these massive shifts are happening on a physical level truly, how do you then integrate them back into your everyday life? And that is the Explore quadrant. So how do we explore the changes for integration, because if we're not exploring what's different, the body will revert back to what it knows, the bodies start amazing. Yeah, like that, right. Like, we seek homeostasis, we seek baseline, and we need to stay functional. So we'll do it in the shortest amount of time possible in order to produce.
So the Explore quadrant uses exercises. And this one's really derivative of my ot background. So we use neuromuscular reeducation, positional release techniques, therapeutic exercise, and we tie it all together, I have about 320, to 45 minute exercise routines that are all designed to strengthen parts in your body that are weakened from chronic repetitive strain over time. So to kind of bring you back to that divine line. So over time, that little postural hack that we did, that that starts to feel easier and more natural. And it truly is, you know, as within so without, which is the principle of correspondence. When you feel like you are sitting at your divine line in your center, and that feels like your natural state, then you know, where you are in relation to others at all times. So the third piece uses exercise to kind of build that that postural stability and strength. And then you begin to embody you as you should. And there are some questions, some body based inquisitions that you ask consistently, every day, as you're doing the Kinect quadrant, then you're exploring what feels different every day, and then you maintain the changes over time.
And then the final quadrant is the embody quadrant, the embodied quadrant, I think, is often that's then when we start to look at the environment. So what are the barriers that are keeping you from wearing the changes or embodying the changes? So yes, I'm using the word in the way that I said that to you that but how do you embody the changes? How do you hold the changes? So I find that in me embody quadrant now we're having conversations about things that people often they want to talk about before they've done those three other steps. And honestly, this fourth quadrant for me as an opportunity to drop in other practitioners, this is where I start to refer out. And this is where a lot of us need to be looking at who is our team, who are our professionals that kind of, we want to co treat with who really get our work who understand our work. And we understand there's, this is the, it takes a village part, you know, this is why I value you, deeply, truly. So in the fourth quadrant, we start to talk about what's keeping you from holding the changes. And sometimes those are things like small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, right, right. Sometimes they're things like toxic relationships. Sometimes there are things like this is often where the trauma conversations really start to come in, or the residual pieces, because a lot of the trauma has come up in the Connect piece, and we integrate, we explore what feels different, and we integrate that. But in the embody quadrant, we're kind of looking at what are the things that are static right now environmentally, and also within your own health. And sometimes those are things even like your energetic health, right.
So if you are someone who is very energetically permeable, you can do all this really great work and all these other areas. But if you're not also creating those energetic boundaries for yourself, then you're continue continuing to fall out of your window of tolerance. And that is kind of where we start to have more of that conversation of the window of tolerance to emotional resilience, what are things that are keeping you from maintaining, sometimes will do things like a spell, you know, I had one client who this person was transitioning genders, and we needed to, we needed to mourn the death, you know, we needed to grieve. So we, the homework for this person was to do a spell around a death of the old person.
The grieving is one that kind of comes up a lot, actually, I have found that it helps to add in things like flower essences in this quadrant. Homeopathy is such a beautiful ally, in this fourth quadrant. So it's kind of where I start to refer if it's outside of my scope of practice, or understanding. I do have different practitioners that I'll refer to at that point. And none of these four are done and seriation. Right, that it um, they're really it's really looked at like a, like a wheel, right. So you start with one, but then you, you start with a SAS, and then you go to connect, but as you're still connecting, you're still doing assessment every day. And eventually, you've done enough change shifting in the body that you start to tie in the Explore quadrant some exercise, but you're still connecting every day, you're still getting into the pockets of trauma in the body. And then you find there's a barrier. So you'll have a conversation about homeopathy, or a conversation about referring out to a spiritual healer, you know, so it's always moving like in a in a wheel? Yeah. Yeah.
Silvia Hazel:
I love that. That's beautiful.
Nyle Macfarlane:
Thank you. Yeah. So it's really just structure, right. And nothing I said is new.
Silvia Hazel:
Yeah, but I think structure is like very helpful for people. Because, you know, when you talk about healing, there's like, so many different things that could come up. And we have a tendency for just like, you kind of alluded to early, like overriding our body or just like overriding and deciding, like, from a logical standpoint, what we think is right, for us. And so I feel like, you know, we can talk about, oh, like, connect with your body and get back into the body. But what does that mean? I think that's what people are really struggling to figure out for themselves. And they need some sort of structure and a framework to help them do that. So I feel like that's a really beautiful thing that you've offered to people is the structure and the framework.
Nyle Macfarlane:
Thank you for saying that. That's a really good point. Yeah. And it's funny, even if they know that they need to get into the body. Well, even just saying that out loud, like, what, what does that mean to people? Right? I find that when we do body based healings, we're still kind of playing at the surface level here. Right? And that second quadrant that connect quadrant is I liken it to diving under the wave under there, it's quiet. It's peaceful, you know? But there is something that scares me blood out that?
Silvia Hazel:
Yeah, well, it's not so simple as just taking a supplement or, you know, all these other things it is it requires a lot of work. And it's hard work. And it's uncomfortable, it can be really uncomfortable and painful.
Nyle Macfarlane:
It can be. And I, you know, I do think that there is an old school model of healing that was not as trauma informed. And I will admit that I was guilty of kind of playing in that realm for a really long time. And in the 80s, and 90s, I don't think we were as trauma informed as we are now. And there's kind of two schools of thought, right? You were either mental health professional, who psycho analyzed and you know, talked your issues, or you are a body worker who went into the body and did not consider the minds needs for safety.
So the four quadrants of embodiment, I find really tie the two together, I really found that in the in the trauma informed world, it was lacking. It was lacking this like deeper, go into the body, let the body lead, hold space, clear your agenda, don't go in with your agenda. Even asking the question, Where do you feel this in your body is very agenda driven? Right? Because someone just told you I'm feeling a certain way. And now you're saying where does that live in your body?
Well, now you're still using your mind to tell your body what's up. So this is a way of, it doesn't bypass the mind at all, it doesn't bypass the egos need to feel safe, and just lets the body go first, and let somebody leave, lead. And I do think there's something scary to that. Because in our body, body worker world in the world of physical rehabilitation, especially the world I come from, which is manual therapy, the modalities that I was trained in, are really looking at, this is the body you have, where, how can we physically change something in your body so that you physically feel different. And I never took into consideration how that would shift your mental health. And I do think, you know, when your body feels more open and free, your mind is going to feel more open and free. But when we start to get into the places in the body that are restricted physically, and we release those restrictions, that does have it does release trauma, it does release a motion, and body workers, were not considering that, or at least they were kind of like, it was kind of like you they were pushing it aside, right, it would come up, we would push that aside. And then we would keep focusing on the physical body without doing both.
And I think that body workers have this mindset that if I acknowledge the trauma and emotion that it's coming up on the table, and slow it down to titrate, that to allow it to come to process it through, then I am I am getting attached to an agenda, I am taking this person too much into their head, I'm moving away from the body. And that's not the case, because those two things are not separate. The mind and the body are not separate. Right? Right. So we really need a model like this that bridges the gap between the two worlds, the mind and the body world, the mental health and the physical rehab. I feel that body workers and mental health professionals need to be learning this. This modality, I think will will help for mental health professionals, it will help take their clients in quicker. And for body workers, it will help to bring language to what's already coming up. So that maybe clients will feel less afraid to go there. You know? Yeah, bridging the gap, I think is where it's at, especially since 2020. When we need more trauma informed body workers. And we need more mental health professionals who are willing to go into the body. And there are tools that exist right now.
You know, somatic experiencing. Have you heard of Oh, yeah. Yeah. Peter Levine. He's amazing. He's an amazing pioneer in the work. Pat Ogden is another one sensorimotor psychotherapy. So we do have some of these tools already. But again, I find that they are lacking in the body first, it's still uses the mind to scan what's happening in the body instead of allowing the space for the body, and then bringing in some of the more top down tools.
Silvia Hazel:
Yeah. Yeah, that's really interesting. And you also mentioned, you know, in regards to like safety with the body and how that's really important. I'm curious, because obviously, a lot of my work is, you know, working with people who have chronic illness. And so there is a innate lack of safety with the body there. So any thoughts on that? Or how to kind of support those people? In embodiment? Absolutely.
Nyle Macfarlane:
Yeah. Low and slow, is what is the phrase that's coming up here, low and slow? There is no need to rip the band aid off. And again, I think that that's really what some of the old school healing work was, was rip the band aid off and just, you know, yeah, see what happens here with the fallout? Yeah. And so I think there's some residual fear around going there. Now, because of that. And this really is where Peter Levine's work has really laid such beautiful groundwork. The the term titration, right, titration, when you think about what it is, is, it's starting with a liquid that has an open, more wide opening, and then it slowly starts to narrow until it just drips out the bottom. So same is true for clients whose bodies kind of feel like a landmine a little bit, right. Like, they don't want to go there. Because they do I think they do have the mindset of if I, if I look what's at what's a mirror, I can't shut the lid again, I can't go back. Right, right. And so what happens is, they end up walking around like a, it feels like they're walking on a landmine, like they really have to watch whether it's tapping, and one wrong step boom, you know. So, in those cases, I often use the body as its own anchor. Nothing in the body operates in isolation, everything has a pair or a partner. Where there's an agonist, there's an antagonist, right? Where there's a back, there's a front. So when we find kind of these important spots in the body, or these hotspots in the body, we go into those areas, but I then have them feel into where does it connect. And it's when you can feel the connection, we disperse the awareness a little bit and it feels less big. Right? That's the beauty of working in fascia is we're not working in one place ever, there's always a connection. And that's the second quadrant is connect, we're not just connecting to the body, we're feeling where the body connects to itself. And when we can find a pair or a partner, we can anchor it back into the body. And that creates a feeling of safety. Oftentimes. Yeah, so the answers are not outside of you ever, right? The body has the answers, the body is the anchor to safety. I think when we start to think of this as like this big thing, and oh my gosh, what's going to happen? This is going to be so and so intense. Once you experience it on a body level, you're kind of like, Oh, that wasn't so bad. Yeah. That's really and then the integration pieces is where the practitioners it's, and that's where the onus is on us to make sure we're giving clients tools to keep it going. So that we're not just like, you know, ripping the band aid off and sending them out the door bleeding.
Silvia Hazel:
Yeah, I agree. I feel like in general, our society has like very little space for integration. And I feel like that is definitely something that we need to remember as part of the process.
Nyle Macfarlane:
The integration, yeah. Yeah, I think it comes from medicine, the way we've practiced medicine for a really, really long time. One of the reasons I'm so grateful for CH and I'm actually a patient is because it it doesn't have as much of that fix it mentality, like here are your symptoms to this thing, and then you'll feel better. You know, I've been on a healing journey with SIBO for the past three years. And I've feel how when I started to heal SIBO my anxiety started to soften, right? There's that correlation. I didn't go to the practitioner saying, I have anxiety, let me I need to heal my SIBO right now. I went into the body and I healed the symptoms of the body. And then it began to manifest as an integration and a change of behavior. So yeah, I think if we can start to move away from this, fix it mentality and just listen and follow, the integration will happen. And then once we feel the changes, that's your buy in right there. Yeah, you know, it needs to feel applicable and attainable, or people won't stick with it.
Silvia Hazel:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, so I guess my next question for you would be what is something that you wish that everybody knew about embodiment? Like, if it was just one thing that you could kind of get out to the masses in regards to embodiment? What would that be?
Nyle Macfarlane:
That the answers you're looking for are not outside of yourself? Yeah. There are so many reasons why a person cannot go inward. Right? traumas are a real thing. And we're not bypassing that here. In fact, the very first trauma that every one of us experienced was the trauma of being born. And that's disassociating, it's just associating for the baby, it's disassociating. For the mother, I don't care how, if you had a water birth, and the cord stayed connected for a week, and you know, you stayed in your cocoon together, the trauma of being born is real, it's the it's the first separation from the mother. And the trauma to the mother or to the birthing person is real. And so these little moments in time throughout your life, create these, these minor and major dis associations, where pieces of your spirit start to leave your physical self, and they're out there all around you. And then you have the fascial restrictions in the body that kind of create blocks that now become a sponge for certain types of emotion and stress. So you're kind of walking around a, a version of yourself, that is not the most authentic virgin version because of dis associations, because the body needs to seek homeostasis.
So it's going to find new coping mechanisms. So you now have disassociation, you have coping mechanisms, defense mechanisms, those searches shape and change your body over time. So here, I said, saying, just get into the body get in the body and the person's like, I am trying. And there's no concept or baseline for what that means for that person. So starting where you're at, and clearing the blocks from the body first, instead of trying to change your environment, or trying to change your patterns of behavior, there's a reason those things exist the way they do.
There's a reason people are reacting or responding to the way that they are. People are a mirror for what's going on inside of us. So instead of trying to control or shift or change any of those things, start with the body and work with where you're at, clear those blocks from the body. And then what remains over time as you write. At the end of the day, when we're doing the work, which is connecting back to the body and releasing the fascial restrictions from the body. Doing that over time consistently.
All that remains is all that you are. Truly, it doesn't make you a different version of yourself. It makes you the version of yourself that you truly are. And then you will do anything you can to ferociously protect that. Once you have access to that, I mean, the the joy and the happiness that's on there. The Union, the inner union that's found there that's felt there. Once you have that it's yours.
Silvia Hazel:
Yeah. Well, that was so much good information. Last question for you would be how can listeners learn more about you and the work that you do? And if people wanted to work with you? How do they do that?
Nyle Macfarlane:
Thank you. Yeah. Well, I was thinking about that on the way over here. And one of the things that I think is super fun, if anyone's interested is I do teach a retreat. So there is actually an opportunity to run away to the mountains and have this kind of immersive experience with the work right, which sometimes I think is exactly what we need. Sometimes it is nice to go into a container with other individuals who are doing this work also away from your natural environment, and just have an immersive experience. So I am leading an embodiment retreat on June 8 to the 12th, from June 8 to June 12. And that's 2023. But I will be doing this every year. This is part of pathways productions.
So they have a retreat center in Charlottesville, Virginia. So there are some spaces open for that currently. And if this year doesn't work, there's always going to be another. I also teach the embodiment project twice a year. And that's every spring and every fall. As of now, that is a six week program. And it's all online. It's all virtual. It is a group healing container, where we meet every saturday and every sunday for two and a half hours on Saturday, two and a half hours on Sunday, every other weekend, and then on our off weekend, we meet for an integration circle on Sunday nights. And that starts April 29 for the spring semester. And then there is a fall version that starts right around Halloween weekend. And it runs for six weeks. And that in that course we're doing something it's it's a combination of bodywork and trauma informed healing, where we're healing seven embodiment codes is what they're called, which are just seven fascial restrictions that live reside inside the body that holds specific Carmen's and traumas. So we do that it's kind of an accelerant for healing. So we do that together for six weeks, and you learn a ton of self treatment techniques. you're releasing seven collective traumas that live in the body, and we're all doing it together as a group.
So you kind of have that group support and accountability, which is nice. And then at the end, you have access to a part of my website, that is a membership page, where you can continue to watch the replays and do the fascial release techniques on your own. As those you know, karmic patterns kind of come back up in the field again, you can go back and and do some tune up work. And then I teach a 12 month certification program. And this is for practitioners who wish to work to learn the four quadrants of embodiment. And registration for that, as currently open in classes start on June 1, which you can find all of this on my website. So if you go to Blue Nile therapy.com, you can find the embodiment project and the practitioner program. And we're currently in the process of getting the practitioner program accredited. Some Yeah, some local, some national associations. Very cool. Yeah.
Silvia Hazel:
That's awesome. So patients are feeling like they're ready to start doing the work with embodiment, then they can kind of connect with you in whatever capacity feels most comfortable to them and where they are in their process.
Nyle Macfarlane:
Yeah, you know, I think the embodiment project is a good place to start. But sometimes people need one on one work, and they're not ready for groups. So in that case, I do see clients still twice a week in person. I will never stop doing the hands on work. Yeah, that is my my life split, I feel. And then I do see clients virtually as well, once a week. So if you're not local to the DC area, we can still do some of this embodiment work through telehealth. Yes, I do that as well.
Silvia Hazel:
Awesome. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for all of the information today. I feel like this is a missing piece in the health and wellness, you know, world and I feel like this could really help a lot of people. So thanks for doing the work that you do and for having a conversation with me today.
Nyle Macfarlane:
You're so welcome. As as always, there's so much more. I didn't feel like I could talk about this all day. But thank you for your questions. And thank you for bringing awareness to this topic. It really is important I feel the same. Yeah, I appreciate you.
Dr. Andrew Wong:
Thank you so much for joining us today for this episode of the capital Integrative Health podcast. A quick reminder that the information we share on this podcast is meant for educational and informational purposes only. It's not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. We highly recommend that you speak to a qualified health care provider before making any medical or healthcare decisions. If you enjoy this episode, please take a few moments to subscribe and leave us a review. Your reviews help us reach more people and continue to offer innovative insights and information to better optimize your health and wellness.