Episode 93: Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) for Autoimmunity and More with Linda Elsegood
Show Summary:
In this episode, we are excited to have Linda Elsegood, an advocate and expert in the field of low-dose naltrexone (LDN). LDN has gained significant attention in recent years for its potential in treating a wide range of conditions, from autoimmune diseases to chronic pain. In this episode, we'll dive into the world of LDN, exploring its mechanism of action, its applications across various health conditions, and the transformative experiences of individuals who have incorporated LDN into their treatment protocols. Linda Elsegood is an esteemed voice in the LDN community, having founded the LDN Research Trust. She will share her wealth of knowledge and personal experiences, discussing the science behind LDN, its safety profile, and the ongoing research that continues to expand our understanding of its potential benefits. If you've ever been curious about LDN or are seeking alternative treatment options for your health condition, join us for this captivating conversation with Linda Elsegood on low dose naltrexone.
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Full Transcript:
Linda Elsegood
by increasing your body's own endorphins, endorphins are your body's own natural feelgood factor and painkiller. So people on LDN normally feel brighter, happier. And obviously, it helps with the pain as I've explained earlier. And it also we now know and I think it was like 2010 that it works on the toll like receptors. Now the toll like receptors reduce inflammation, now, chronic conditions and chronic pain, there is so much inflammation in the body. And by reducing that inflammation,
Linda Elsegood
it reduces the symptoms of that condition.
Dr. Andrew Wong
Welcome to the Capitol Integrative Health podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Andrew Huang. And we're excited to have Linda Elsa good an advocate and expert in the field of low dose Naltrexone. LDN has gained significant attention in recent years for its potential and treating a wide range of conditions, from autoimmune diseases to chronic pain and much more. In this episode, we'll dive into the world of low dose Naltrexone or LDN, exploring its mechanism of actions, its applications across a variety of health conditions, and the transformative experiences of individuals who have incorporated LDN into the treatment protocols, including Linda herself. Linda also good is an esteemed voice in the LDN community. Having founded the worldwide LDN research Trust, which is the premier research site for low dose Naltrexone. She will share her wealth of knowledge and personal experiences discussing the science behind LDN its safety and efficacy profile and the ongoing research that continues to expand our understanding of its potential benefits. If you've ever been curious about LDN or seeking alternative treatment options for your health condition. Join us for this captivating conversation with Linda Elsa good on low dose Naltrexone.
Dr. Andrew Wong
Welcome, and thanks so much for coming on today to our podcast.
Linda Elsegood
Thank you very much for having invited me. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah,
Dr. Andrew Wong
same. And Linda, you're a founder of the LDN research trust. LDN stands for low dose Naltrexone. That's a nonprofit charity in the UK. We're talking just offline about how you're just north of a, of a well known football city. So we'll have to look that up here. And if you could tell our listeners a bit about your personal story, if you don't mind and what led you to found this charity and get into LDN.
Linda Elsegood
I have multiple sclerosis, and I was diagnosed in 2000. I had Epstein Barr Virus glandular fever when I was 13. And I had nearly a year off school. Looking back, I suffered with chronic fatigue syndrome. At that time, I've in that year that I had off school, I didn't really do any schoolwork because trying to read anything. It was too tiring. I slept all the time I found it difficulty walking. But after like a year, I went back to school, or I would have done but the night before my face was swollen again. And I'd actually caught mumps. Don't ask me how I gone. So I have a few more days off school. And I met my husband when I was 18. And he now says that I definitely had MS then because I was always ill, which I thought was a horrible thing to say I thought he was attacking me calling me a hypochondriac. But he said no, no, no, you really did have lots of things happen to you. But because at the time you're busy with your life, and I didn't ever focus on being ill, you know, certain parts of me went numb certain parts had pins and needles. You know, I had lots of bladder problems. But these things came and went. So I just thought they were transient, and they didn't mean anything. But when you know you've got this diagnosis, and you go back, they're all pieces of a jigsaw puzzle that you know, hadn't been put together. And I didn't go to the doctors for everything because it was no big deal at the time I thought maybe I'll see a doctor who had gone so this carried on this pattern of getting weird things and then they went until Christmas 1999 My mother had a heart attack very close to my mother. And the trauma of that affected me very, very badly. So much so that buy this was Christmas 1999 and the following year. By the Easter I think that was like April or something like you I wasn't functioning very well at all. I was managing to get out of bed, go to work, work, come home, crawl into bed, I couldn't do anything else. You know, I didn't want to eat. I didn't want to cook anything. I just didn't have the energy. And this carried on. And I said to my husband, if we can go away for Easter, and leave all the illness at home, go away and have a nice time and then come back to being how I used to be. I mean, doesn't that sound ideally, you know, if only things could happen like that. And of course, I went away. And normally we went to Portugal, that time of the year is usually really, really hot. You know, you can Sunday, it was cold, wet and windy. And the apartment, we stayed in the drain the central heating, so it was cold, will you go outside, come back wet, there was nowhere to dry your clothes, you were freezing. And for some reason, or other than the coal, and the wind and the rain made the left hand side of my face going on. It was the rain, okay. I was convinced it was the rain. And I was very, very tired. But I did say to my husband, I think when I get back, I'm going to have to go and see a doctor. I think there's something wrong with me. I went to see my doctor, when I got back and he said I think you need to see a neurologist. And I didn't see the neurologist until August. So I mean, that's a long light. By this time, I was really deal. And I've had to stop work. I came back and everybody said, Oh, are you okay? Now after you've had your holiday, and it was like, no. So I said, I really can't work full time anymore for some reason or that I can't do it. And big mistake really going from full time to part time. So I did that. And then things progressed. I had three courses of intravenous steroids in an 18 month period, my face blew up like a balloon, I put on a lot of white, my face was really red, and I'm a pale person. And then it just, I was relapsing and remitting, every six months I'd have a relapse, I would start to come out with a relapse, and bam, I would have another one. And my level of quality of life came down it was like coming down steps on a ladder, I never went back up again. And then in 2003, my neurologist did lots of different tests. And he taught me that I'm really sorry, your secondary progressive now and there's nothing more that can be done for you. And he showed me this office that was it. And at that time, that completely the left hand side of my body you could actually feel from one side to the other was numb the left hand side was numb all the way down. I had burning, unbelievable burning and I had pins and needles and numbness. Both of which hurt I had terrible pain. I had cognitive problems. I spoke as our as somebody who'd had a stroke on fluid, my words, I choked on my food. It was like I had Alzheimer's, I couldn't recall anything. And everything I thought was coming out of my mouth, I will try and put a sentence together made sense to me in my head. But when I said it, nobody understood what I was talking about. I lost my bowel and bladder control. I lost the hearing in my left ear. I had double vision twitching muscles, restless legs, the list goes on. And to be told that there's nothing more that can be done for you. is unbelievable. When you think there was no plan B it was like okay, this is how you are, this is what we can try. There was nothing and I did contemplate engineer all which sounds very defeatist. That wasn't the case. It was the case of I was stopping everybody around me from having a normal life because they couldn't get on and do what they wanted to do because I was the brake that was stopping everybody. So I thought by taking lots of painkillers that I could give everybody else their lives back. But it was my 15 year old daughter who was going to find me so I couldn't do that. So the only option was was to prove everybody wrong that that was something that could be done. So in 2003 The internet is nothing like it is today. It was very hard. It was done. I looked so low. Google, I don't think was in existence at that time. So I knew I wasn't unique. I knew that there were other people out there who was similar to me, you know, what were they doing? What are their doctors suggesting? And I've managed to find some people in the US who all said the same thing. You should try LDN. It might not do you any good, but it won't do you any harm. And at that point, I didn't really care if it got terrible side effects. It was something I could try. But it was going to be harmless. So I managed to find a doctor Bob Lawrence in Wales, who gave me lots of LDN information to take to my own doctor. I took it, they wouldn't prescribe it for me. But my doctor said, If I could get somebody else to prescribe it, she would monitor me. So that was really good.
Linda Elsegood
So Dr. Bob Lawrence prescribed it for me. And in those days, the protocol was to take three milligrams for a month, and then 4.5 Thereafter, I was very lucky because the some people three milligrams is too high will always be too high. And four milligrams could make them feel quite unwell. But I tolerated it. I was told I might have introductory side effects being headaches, then I cut that up dreams, sleep disturbance. I wanted all of these side effects, because I wanted to know it was doing something for me. It did nothing. I didn't have any side effects at all. And I was so disappointed because I thought it's not going to work for me because it's doing nothing. And at that point living in my head, because I've only got hearing in one ear and honestly, if I was asleep, lying on my right ear, which the year I could hear and anybody could talk to me do anything have to shake me because I couldn't hear. So I couldn't see properly my Oh, it's terrible. And I had very bad vertigo and no balance. So I felt fell tripped, stumbled, I was on the floor a lot of the time. But it was like living in my head in a television set that wasn't tuned in I couldn't see properly hear properly. I've got no thought processes. It was awful. But after three weeks on LDN it was like somebody turned that television set by to tune in. And suddenly, I could think again. Now it doesn't sound like a big deal. But when you've not been able to think it was amazing. The only thing early on, when I was first married, we got burgled we got flooded, we lost everything, childhood photographs, treasures that I had collected, I would have taken so the only thing that I treasured was my memory, because nobody can steal that from you. But Ms was dealing had stolen it from me, you know, I couldn't remember anything. And what I did remember was all the wrong way around. But it was three weeks and I could suddenly have clarity of mind. And if that is all that LDN had done for me, I would have still been very grateful. And also the relapses had stopped. I know that some people with secondary progressive don't get relapses, but I didn't have relapses anymore. But over a period of 18 months once I had this eureka moment of clarity of mind slowly those symptoms started to recede. Do I know I've got MS. Still yes I do. I get fatigued. Some people are lucky enough when they take LDN they don't get sick anymore as in they don't get colds or flu or anything like that. I do. I if my grandson comes with something he's picked up at school, you can guarantee I'm going to get it and colds, sinusitis, you name it. You know throat infections, I get them. How does that affect me? Well, it affects my MS. I can say that it can wipe the strength from the legs. I can have to use my wheelchair. It can affect my bladder control. And as I say the fatigue but after the infection is gone. I go back to where it was. You know it's not this to that downward spiral. So I think I'm extremely lucky.
Dr. Andrew Wong
Thank you for that really personal testimonial because that's one of the questions that We had as you know, any personal stories and you're sharing your own personal story here and so thank you so much for for you know, sharing that with with us. So it sounds like you know if this is not too much of an overstatement LDN has been a life changer for you and for your health and probably for your family by extension. Yes, yes. Yes. Thank you. Well, let's go more into what what LDN is it's it's a medication so it's prescribed by by medical, you know, providers. It's a medication but it's a compounded medication, correct. It's something that you would need from a compounding pharmacy. What What exactly is low dose naltrexone, how is it and we made it I don't have to get into all the backstory of this, but you know, how was it sort of discovered? And what is the difference between say that and you know, something like Naloxone, you know?
Linda Elsegood
Okay. So let's go back to the 1970s. Now, Trek's own was developed, trialed and tested and only found harmful to the liver in doses of 300 milligrams a day. It came in 50 milligram tablet, and it was taken three times a day. And this was the heroin and alcohol addiction. And I have spoken to people that have taken it for that and it gives a complete opioid blockade, and it makes people feel completely flat. It's not an experience that people enjoy. And of course, you don't get that with LDN LDN stands for the low dose Naltrexone. And as I said, years ago, the protocol they have, then it's changed and it maybe could start at point five milligrams of LDN. And some doctors go as high as nine milligrams. And you can also get ultra low dose Naltrexone where we're talking point 001. Why such a low dose I mean, that is used for helping people who are on opioids. And by using such a low dose of ultra low dose naltrexone, it makes the opioids more effective, the patient doesn't have to come off the opioid doesn't have to decrease the opioids. Because these people, you know, most of the people that I deal with it, like 99.9%, are hooked on opioids, you know, so they are what you would call legal drug addicts, but only because it's prescription medications, you know, they both that they're hooked on these medications, so that they weren't that worried about withdrawal, they don't want to stop the opioids. But using the ultra low dose, you can titrate the ultra low dose up alongside of the opioids, which makes the opioids more effective, which means you can try train down the opioids. So it's, you know, a seesaw effect, you decrease one and decrease the other. And patients managed to come off the opioids without going through withdrawal, which I think is totally amazing, because it's, as you know, very difficult to come off opioids. That's
Dr. Andrew Wong
huge, especially with the opioid epidemic. So it's a low dose version of naltrexone. How does how does low dose Naltrexone work from a mechanistic? Mechanistic perspective?
Linda Elsegood
So now, Trek's own itself has three mechanisms of actions that we know of right now. Dr. Bernard Bihari had been using LDN since 1985. He originally had been using it for his AIDS patients, which he found worked very well. And he had a friend whose daughter had Ms. And he prescribed it for her. And it would seem, I don't know this lady, that she had a similar response to LDN that I had. But after a few years, she thought that she had been misdiagnosed that she hadn't actually got MS. And she stopped and all her symptoms came back. Have I experimented and tried to come off LDN to see what happened. No way I have never been to do that. I do not want to go and be that person again. So I'm definitely not going to stop taking out the end. So Dr. Bernard Bihari at that time, a saint that LDN boosts your body's own endorphins by blocking those opioid receptors. So by increasing your body's own endorphins, endorphins are your body's own natural feelgood factor and painkiller. So people on LDN normally feel brighter, happier. And obviously, it helps with the pain as I explained earlier. And it also we now know, and I think it was like 2010, that it works on the toll like receptors. Now the toll like receptors reduce inflammation, now, chronic conditions and chronic pain, there is so much inflammation in the body. And by reducing that inflammation, it reduces the symptoms of that condition. But also, at this point, I will explain that, you know, most people do not take LDN as a standalone treatment, they will look at anti inflammatory diets, they will look at supplements, as well as and you obviously, inflammation is a big deal by doing other things, as well as taking LDN is certainly a plus. And then it also helps it can cause cell death in cancer, which is another relatively new concept of LDN. So how quickly does LDN work people will ask, it was three weeks in my case, some people say after three days, they've slept better than they have been years. Some people are disappointed, you know, 18 months later, they've stabilized and if you have a progressive disease, to have something that stabilizes that disease, it's working for you, you know, but some people have felt 18 months in, they haven't deteriorated but they haven't got any better. And then suddenly, and I don't know why, after so many months, their symptoms start to fade and reduce. So I always say, you know, if you're tolerating LDN, and it's not expensive, if you can afford it, try it for 18 months before you decide, you know, it's not working for you. But the number of people who will say no, LDN is not working for me, I'm going to stop, I would say more than three quarters of them restart, because they'll say, Oh, I've actually forgotten that LDN helped me with x y Zed. And it's come back now. And I'd forgotten about that. So people generally when they stop, restart, yes,
Dr. Andrew Wong
yes, we've had that experience in our clinic too. And this is an across the pond question. I know in America, there's a lot of people interested in quick fixes. And like, let's get this treatment that results in a very quick result. But in fact, if someone has a chronic illness or chronic disease has been going on for a long time, it might take, like you said up to 18 months or more of a treatment before it actually starts to work. It sounds like that might be the case for for LDN.
Linda Elsegood
And there are some conditions. For example, in dermatology, alopecia, psoriasis, back chest syndrome, Haley Haley's disease, for some reason or other skin conditions take longer for people to actually see a result, you know, you've got to be patient. And, you know, it can quite often if anybody has a result within six months, they've done really well, if it's a dilemma, logical issue. And people with chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, those patients are usually ultra sensitive to any drugs or drugs. And we have to remember LDN is still a drug, even though it's a low dose. And those people do need to start slowly. But if people get side effects years ago, the protocol was you took it at night. And this was from Dr. Bihari. He told people to take it at night because he thought if they were going to have any side effects, they would have them while they were asleep and be okay the next day, but many doctors now prescribe it in the morning and that eliminates the side effects.
Dr. Andrew Wong
Okay, that's good to know. And you said just to kind of recap a bit. So three mechanisms of action increasing the endorphin production, increasing toll like receptors, I think even TLR four, which decreases inflammation and then also potentially being cytotoxic for cancer cells. which is a new one. And it sounds like there's based on those mechanisms of action. There's a lot of conditions. That low dose Naltrexone could typically be used for and potentially effective when prescribed by an integrative practitioner. Anyone else that is open minded that wants to, you know, prescribe this. I think big buckets being it sounds like you're already mentioned chronic pain conditions like fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, autoimmunity, so your own story of multiple sclerosis, psoriasis, you know, skin conditions, what about things like GI issues like Crohn's or hormone issues like Hashimotos, or thyroid, or even thyroid issues like Hashimotos, or even lupus, or all those kinds of fear game here for LDN,
Linda Elsegood
a condition that has an autoimmune component to it LDN potentially could work. So I mean, as you were saying, with the Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, rheumatoid arthritis, and lupus, and the list goes on, there's about 400 Now, with conditions that it could potentially help with. But it also is so used in infertility clinics, helping women get pregnant, which is reassuring, because we now know that I mean, Dr. Phil Boyd has been using it. The LDN research trust has been going 20 years next year, and he was doing it before then. So probably 23 years, that he's been using it to help women get pregnant, they stay on it. And they still take it during breastfeeding. And he says that these babies are less likely to get chest infection, I didn't know but newborn babies do. But apparently, quite a few newborn babies need antibiotics, these babies are a good weight, they're very contented. They don't need the antibiotics, it's so comparing a baby that hasn't been subjected to LDN. And one that has, the difference is amazing. He finds it's very good. And it's also used in psychiatry. And psychologists recommend LDN for not just PSTD, addiction, weight loss, all kinds of mental health issues. And then as we said before the chronic pain, even if there isn't a autoimmune component, it can still help with with chronic pain, and cancer. And you know, the list goes on. And
Dr. Andrew Wong
it sounds like there's 400 diseases for which LDN could be effective. A lot of the there's a unifying umbrella of inflammation, right inflammation, of course, in the functional medicine kind of root cause approach. Inflammation is the root driver of a lot of illness, a lot of imbalances and it sounds like LDN, one of the main mechanisms is to reduce inflammation but but in a way without side effects that may be things like steroids would have or NSAIDs would have things like that. You mentioned some of the side effects. Are there any long term safety concerns with with LDN that, you know,
Linda Elsegood
and I've been taking it nearly 20 years, I've not had any problems. And I know some people that have been taking it since 1985. They haven't any issues either. But we have to remember that LDN only stays in your body for four hours. So every day you're getting a 20 hour break of LDL system. So it's not as though it builds up. Yeah, it's there. It does its job and it goes. But I haven't heard of anybody who's had any serious long term adverse effects.
Dr. Andrew Wong
And it sounds like that 20 outbreak would allow the body to equilibrate if there was some, you know, too much dampening of the inflammation because obviously inflammation to some moderate degree, it's good that we need that to, you know, kind of rev up the immune system once in a while. Who would be so I think we mentioned a lot of people who could be good candidates for LDN people with autoimmunity, chronic pain, mental health conditions, chronic inflammation, which covers I think all of us probably have also just just to kind of add some anecdotes that we've definitely treated some patients in our clinic with things like chronic Lyme and you know, basically infections and a lot of times people have, you know, fatigue, pain and things like that. And that inflammation often goes away or gets much better with LDN. You know, a lot of times that is the treatment, not not just sort of herbals or antibiotics for Lyme, but but the LDN may make the primary difference or some subset of those patients really lend to who who's not a good candidate for LDN? Is there anyone that you're just like, well, maybe try a different treatment.
Linda Elsegood
Most people are absolutely fine. If you are on high doses of opioids, you couldn't start on a high dose of LDN. Even at point five would be considered a high dose, you'd have to go on micro dosing. Years ago, when I first started, it said, You were not allowed to take steroids with LDN. While Dr. Joe Smith used steroids when she did her Crohn's study, so we knew that it was safe to use. With that, we were also told you couldn't take it with the immune suppressant. And now it's used alongside of immune suppressants, which helps some traditional Western medicine doctors who are persuaded to prescribe it for a patient who's begging to have it, they would be reluctant to take them off certain medication, but they don't mind adding LDN in and we find that people then can titrate off these other medications. Like methotrexate, for example. It can be used alongside of them. methotrexate isn't very good. It's very toxic, and people prefer to come off it. Talking about fibromyalgia, we know that some people when they start LDN, can be on 14 different medications, fibromyalgia, and we did a study, and we found that the people managed to either get off of all medications and just on LDN, or they were taking three or four. So three or four medications as opposed to 14. You know, just think, how much better that is for your body?
Dr. Andrew Wong
better and more time to enjoy your life and not not pop 14 pills a day. Right.
Linda Elsegood
Exactly.
Dr. Andrew Wong
That's so great. Um, I think the LDN you know, it's been definitely a game changer for for a lot of people. I want to talk a little bit about cost, you said that it's it's a compounded medication. Sometimes, you know, from a cost and access perspective, some people find it's too expensive. Do you ever recommend people a prescribers do like a 50 milligram tablet and then sort of have had patients, you know, you probably know where I'm going with this kind of grind it up themselves, or is that not not a safe thing to do? No.
Linda Elsegood
That's certainly not recommended. It's not as a charity, we have to be best practice. Yeah. And that certainly isn't best practice. If you think I've had this conversation with many compounding pharmacists, and if you were to do that, the solution that you make, even shaking it up the particles, you could never measure it accurately. It then has to be kept in the fridge and you can have bacteria growing it very easily. It has to be treated as breast milk, it would go off. So it could be very dangerous to do that. Yeah. That would not be recommended. No, but heaven forbid if anybody wanted to buy off the internet. That would be like playing Russian roulette with your life. Because when you buy a prescription drug, it bypasses all quality and safety checks. It can be anything. The MHRA, I can't remember what year it was now, but they said, of the drugs that were imported into the UK that were confiscated and tested. It was like 84% were counterfeit, and some will the harmless had just filler. There was no active ingredient, but some of them were actually very harmful.
Dr. Andrew Wong
So I think the moral of this story is Google that Google is good for kind of information searches but but not good for buying LDN off the internet, go see a prescriber go see a medical provider that knows how to prescribe this the dosing, you know the benefits side effects and then and then they can prescribe it at a pharmacy where there are safety checks, quality checks so that you know what you're getting.
Linda Elsegood
But when you get a as a team, you've got the patient, you've got the prescriber, you've got the pharmacist, and when they're all working together, making sure that you're on the right dose. You know, if you've got any side effects or anything that needs tweaking, you've got the right people with the expertise to help you get the best you can do Talking about Google is a great tool. But there is a lot of misinformation out there. And we make sure that everything we put on our website is accurate and true and back it up with, you know, medical papers research, which there are over 900. Now, in this last 20 plus years, that
Dr. Andrew Wong
that's amazing. And I think as we said in the intro, you were the founder of the LDN research trust, and that is the premier site in the world for research on LDN. Now, you said over 900 papers is very impressive. Can you tell us our audience a bit more about what LDN research does does with the purposes there, I do recommend for patients that come to our clinic, that's the best place to start finding out information on LDN is the LDN research trust, but what what are some resources that people can kind of look at on on your website and realize that? Well,
Linda Elsegood
for patients who have been diagnosed with a condition that they don't know anything about, they don't know how LDN could help. We have a button under resources that is search condition data. So if you had Crohn's disease, you look down the list, click Crohn's disease, and it will show you part conference presentations, interviews with doctors, pharmacists, and patients that are all have experience with Crohn's disease. And then they will show you what trials studies have been carried out what's been in the news, with LDN. For Crohn's disease, everything is in one place, because our website now today is huge. We're going to have a new website released. We've got the LDN Awareness Week on the 19th to the 25th of June. And we are launching a new website, but it is so big, there's so much information, we had to try and make it easily accessible to everybody for people to find it. But for doctors, you know, there is a section with all clinical trial papers, again, you can put in a condition. We have a master class where doctors can doctors, pharmacists, any MDM provider can take this master class, which is very difficult to pass, it's not easy, and we have to make sure that everybody knows what they're doing. And we're all singing from the same hymn sheet, basically, to make sure there are still one or two doctors that don't quite get it who think they can start prescribing. 4.5 from the get go, you know, patients are saying no, no, no, that thing, I don't want to start on that dose. So we're trying to uniform the information, help and support prescribers. And pharmacist. And a lot of nurse practitioners are prescribing LDN. You mentioned the cost. The cost has been even back when we started like 20 years ago, it was like $1 a day. And I think the answer in itself is still probably about $1 a day in many places. It's not expensive, but you do have to pay for the consultation, obviously, to get the prescription that LDN and that can vary from clinic to clinic, doctor's office and doctor's office, you know, and depending in which state you're in, that kind of thing. But it's not generally too expensive. And if somebody wants to try LDN and they find that one place is too expensive, you know, there are others around like you could try.
Dr. Andrew Wong
Yes, and I think it is getting more accessible. It sounds like Well, certainly integrative doctors often you know we do this here. Is this becoming more accepted or mainstream and sort of the conventional medical community that you have seen?
Linda Elsegood
Yes, definitely. And not only is it being more widely accepted in western medicine, we are getting more consultants like gastroenterologist neurologists, neurologists, dermatologist rheumatologist, people at the top of their game, people that have amazing training in heart Harvard and Princeton and so on, that the people who were calling it like 20 years ago, snake oil, you know, and the doctors that are prescribing it were quacks back then there is so many esteemed people prescribing LDN it can't be called back today, you know, it has come on a long way. And like yourself, prescribing LDN in your clinic, you socialize, you talk to other prescriber. If you get a difficult patient or a colleague who has a difficult patient, you would then say, but have you tried LDN? And it's the word of mouth that is also helping?
Dr. Andrew Wong
Definitely, it's definitely word of mouth talking to a specialist, like you said, including rheumatologist for sure seem to be picking it up some in our area. What do you think about LDN for kind of neurologic conditions, besides ms may be things like Parkinson's or Alzheimer's? Have you found any success from providers that have talked to you about? Yes,
Linda Elsegood
I interviewed a few people with Parkinson's, it's been a variable. with Parkinson's, I have to admit, it's not been as a definite improvement, as with MS, for example. And there have been some very good stories with Alzheimer's and memory loss. But again, it's try it and see, I think, you know, it's not where you could say, we really think we would see a definite improvement, you know, be a case of, we may see an improvement,
Dr. Andrew Wong
right, because in theory, even though it would be beneficial for anyone potentially with autoimmune conditions, or inflammatory conditions, of which we would say brain health, often these brain and mental health conditions are inflammatory conditions, in addition to things like cancer, and, you know, quote, unquote, you know, known autoimmune conditions, pain conditions, etc. What do you what have you found? And this is a bit of a big, you know, big cookie chunk question, really, but, um, in terms of the percentage of people that get at least a partial response to LDN, what are kind of the, you know, if you could just summarize a meta analysis of all 900 studies, what is kind of a general percentage range of where, you know, maybe patients and providers and pharmacists could have as a guide to expect, hey, this is kind of the general percentages we're talking about here in terms of response, and maybe there's certain conditions, like you said, that work, where the audio works better than others, and even more on top of that range, you know, but what do you what have you found there? Okay,
Linda Elsegood
so when I do doctors, I will say to them, you know, what percent of your patients would you say, see a response, positive response. And it's usually in between, like 84 86%. Which, do you know, any other medication that has that kind of success rate? Super high,
Dr. Andrew Wong
super high, isn't it?
Linda Elsegood
Yeah. And of course, we haven't discussed blonde COVID.
Dr. Andrew Wong
Now, either, yeah,
Linda Elsegood
it is amazing. Professor Angus Dalglish from St. George's Hospital in London, is not only an oncologist, and he uses it all in his cancer patients, but he's also a biologist. So he was involved in COVID, right from the start in the laboratory, where they were trying to find cures and things. And he has given it to all his long COVID patients. And he that the an interview on the website, you can actually listen to it. And he wrote a chapter in the LDN, Book Three, and he said that all the patients that he gave it to, they improved, all of them improved on LDN. He said, and then some people said, Okay, it's placebo. He said, but those patients that stopped all the symptoms came back, then they went back on it those symptoms when you know, and it just proves that people are placebo. And he thought that anybody with COVID Long COVID should start LDN it should be the first line treatment, and he's 100% for that.
Dr. Andrew Wong
Do you know what the dosage that the St George doctor is using for a long COVID Is it more the 4.5 milligram kind of usual dose? The same
Linda Elsegood
diseases? Yeah, usually by this The toll.
Dr. Andrew Wong
Yeah, and kind of ramping it up kind of ramping up the LDN over over time is what most most doctors do, I think one sample ramp up would be a 1.5 milligrams for a month or something like that. And then 3.0 For second month and 4.5 for for a third month, and then kind of going from there, what do you typically see for your? Yeah, the doctors you talk to? Yeah,
Linda Elsegood
it depends if the patient has some other underlying condition, where they're sensitive to drugs, then you start on point five, for a couple of weeks, then increase it to one 1.5, and so on. But if they are healthy, other than having a long COVID. And then the same with cancer patients where you don't have the time to wait, you know, providing they've got no other condition 1.53 and probably do it every two weeks, and see how they are. And if they don't feel as good, then you can always reduce the dose, you don't have to stay on that dose. But it's important that if you do have some side effects, let's say headache, for example, on whatever dose you start on, and the headache doesn't go, well then the dose is too high. So then reduce the dose. It's really individualized as to what the patient can tolerate. And nobody knows until you You try it. As I say I was so lucky, starting on three that I could tolerate it. It could have been a different story. What would I have done? You know, if I couldn't have tolerated it. But today, we just do it differently.
Dr. Andrew Wong
Yeah, well, thank goodness, you tolerated that. And like you said, everyone is biochemically individual with personalized medicine, those who it's going to be a little different, depending on their health conditions. Thank you so much thunder for coming on today and talking about LDN. This is a great overview. And I hope the listeners got some I know they got some great information here about potentially how to help them or their loved ones. What is kind of one thing just from a takeout box or you know takeout point, takeaway point that you wish everyone knew about low dose Naltrexone.
Linda Elsegood
Well not necessarily know about low dose naltrexone, but I think everybody needs to take ownership of their own condition. And not to be persuaded by a doctor to go down a route that you feel isn't for you to speak up and say, you know, I would prefer to do X Y Zed, or I'd like to include it or would you consider rather than being told to do something that you feel isn't right for you. In the end of the day, it's your body. And the doctor, however nice they are, they can go home, but you have to live with it. So I really think your voice should be heard. And I think that is the most important takeaway message, whether it's LDN, or any other treatment that that you would like to try.
Dr. Andrew Wong
Thank you so much for that public service announcement. We are the CEO of our own bodies around health and being empowered, like you said, and being persistent at times, you know, maybe persistence is needed a lot of time to try to find the answers that work best, you know, for each each person. Thank you so much for that. Part of our mission here at Capitol integrative health, our clinic and community is making integrative health more accessible, and focusing on the small steps we can take to improve our health. So we have a fun closing question for all of our guests. We'd love to hear from you, Linda. More of a personal thing, and it doesn't have to be related to LDN. But what is one thing under $20? Which I don't know what the conversion is in pounds, but 20 $20 that you feel has transformed your own health?
Linda Elsegood
Well, I can't categorically say it has. But everybody is deficient in vitamin D. It would seem and I feel this Monday is a good add on. But everybody and it's not expensive, way cheaper than $20.
Dr. Andrew Wong
Absolutely. Thank you so much. And thank you so much, Linda for coming on today and sharing your extensive knowledge about LDN and your personal story, the research the mechanisms, and this is gonna really help a lot of people here. how can listeners learn more about you and the work that LDN research trust trust is also doing?
Linda Elsegood
Okay, well, we have two websites. We have one which is LDN research trust.org And we have an e commerce website where with selling tickets to the conference next week. And that is LD N RT events.com. And with tickets, and with the live stream, you get to ask your LDN questions to the expert panel. Not only that, you also get the recording of the live stream that comes with it. And we've now been awarded 15 CME credits. So good.
Dr. Andrew Wong
Oh, very exciting. Going to check that out. definitely got to check that out. I think it's going to help with the CME for sure. And, you know, we have a lot of interest in LDN. And it's great to see you know, the work that you and your organization are doing, because, you know, making this more research based making this more accessible for people through education and advocacy is really, really important. So thank you so much for the work you're doing and thanks so much for coming on today.
Linda Elsegood
Well, thank you. It's my pleasure.
Dr. Andrew Wong
Thank you so much for joining us today for this episode of the capital Integrative Health podcast. A quick reminder that the information we share on this podcast is meant for educational and informational purposes only. It's not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. We highly recommend that you speak to a qualified health care provider before making any medical or healthcare decisions. If you enjoy this episode, please take a few moments to subscribe and leave us a review. Your reviews help us reach more people and continue to offer innovative insights and information to better optimize your health and wellness.